Tuesday, July 16, 2013

a civil debate

It's true. Today I call for some civil debate. But don't worry. It's not about anything controversial. Well, scratch that. Maybe it's controversial. But it's not like...emotionally-charged, morally-driven debate. If this were Facebook, you wouldn't be feeling the need to hide me from your newsfeed. No one's gonna make any groan-inducing memes out of this topic. It's fairly inconsequential. But before we get to it, first I must share something else.

Last week on my earth-shattering revelation post about workout fashion Amanda S. left a comment that got me all puffed up with happiness and pride: she said that over the past few months, with all my talk about tri training and silly fitness blabber, I have inspired her to start running for the first time in years! She even compared me to a personal trainer!! And after I pulled myself off the floor and dried my laughter-sourced tears, I felt really happy because hey! I inspired someone to do something actually good! Normally I feel like my inspiration is limited to like...telling you about ridiculous TV shows and other such inconsequential things. But somehow the extremely un-athletic ME inspired someone to get fit! And so I was really excited. So I replied to her and we went back and forth, but then she sent me this email last night and people-- I died. So with Amanda's permission, please enjoy her detailed description of both the inspiration I provided AND way more importantly, her current workout fashion choices:


I'm sorry, but if you don't keel over with ridiculous laughter as you picture her in her 7th grade shetland sheepdog t-shirt, you're doing life wrong. That is amazing. I think I want to start my own What Not to Wear show focusing solely on workout fashion, and Amanda is going to be the subject of my first intervention. :) But at least she recognizes her questionable choices. That's like 80% of the battle, I think. But anyway. I did reply to her that I am now going to plan my own nation-wide tour of 5K races that have a shetland sheepdog t-shirt theme. I expect to see all of you there. 

Anyway. That was too funny to not share, so many thanks to Amanda for a) making those amazing fashion choices and b) letting me blab them to the whole interwebz.

And this is somewhat slightly related to my debate topic for today. Ready for it?

Blog Commenting: Pop-up Window versus Threaded Commenting.

If you're unsure what either of those things means, then please dash off and do some quick Googling before we proceed. Or just look at two examples (whom I did not ask for permission to use as examples, but I trust that they won't care): Allison uses pop-up window commenting. Kara uses threaded.

Up until yesterday afternoon, I've always used pop-up window. I've argued on behalf of pop-up. I've rolled my eyes, sighed heavily, and judged people for not using pop-up. And then yesterday I changed my own blog's commenting to threaded. Here's my issue/thinking.

I like the interaction that comes with commenting. Love it. I love how thoughtful and funny and amazing yall's comments are and I love the conversations they inspire. I try very hard to respond to most comments whenever possible and appropriate. And then sometimes you email back and the conversation continues and it's so much fun and I feel like I've built so many good friendships out of this back-and-forth exchange. 

But here's the thing. I respond to comments via the email notification I get. I do not spend all day staring at my own blog-- but I almost always have access to my email, so when I get a notification, I can easily hit 'reply' and respond, answer your questions, or whatever. But only if I know your email address. Otherwise you are what is known as a 'no-reply blogger.' I've ranted about this before-- please go here to find out more about this phenomenon and how to fix it. Hint: if you almost NEVER get email replies from other bloggers, this is most likely the reason why. Go investigate. Now, if I still really REALLY want to reply to you and I have the time, I might investigate further: if you have your own blog linked to your profile, I might go to your blog and hunt there for an email address (like on your Contact Me page). But if your email isn't easily locate-able on your blog (or you don't have a blog linked to your profile), then I'm pretty much stuck. And I'm sad! Especially if your comment was a question, or a good insight, or whatever...I feel bad that I can't respond! But oh well. 

SO: some bloggers choose to just respond back in the same comment section of their own blog. I get that. But here's the thing: I never, ever go back and re-read the comments on a blog I commented on. I comment on dozens of blogs every day. Don't nobody have time to go back to dozens of blogs and look at dozens of comment sections to see if people responded back in the comment section! If you respond to me and it doesn't get delivered to my email inbox, I'm never gonna know. And I assume most people are similar to me in that fashion. I would never expect you to come back to my blog AGAIN and re-read all the comments just to see if I might have answered a question there. That just seems weird to me. (But correct me if I'm wrong and people DO do that!) (Doo doo. Heh heh.)

So here's where threaded commenting comes in handy: If you enable threaded commenting, you can choose to be notified if someone (not just the blog author) responds to a comment you made. You better just go check out Kara's blog to see what I mean (well, you won't be able to see that these people are ALSO getting email notifications of responses to their comments, but they are). So when she responds to a commenter, a) they find out, b)it posts for everyone to see (so like, if she's answering a question that many people might be thinking, everyone sees the answer at once and doesn't have to keep wondering), c)commenters can interact with one another and ask each OTHER questions and be notified of it (versus being able to directly interact with ONLY the blog author), and d) the whole thing is way more fun. I love reading her blog and like 50% of the reason is that reading the comments is so much fun. I don't know how she finds so many funny people to comment, but dang-- it's just enjoyable. 

So yesterday, when I received a very kind comment and thoughtful question from a commenter, but was unable to find a way to respond, I got mad and changed to threaded commenting. Since I made the change after the fact (that is, after the person had written the comment), I have no idea whether it still notified her that I responded. But now I find myself pondering which way to leave the comments. There are pros and cons to each method.

Pros to Pop-Up Commenting:
-#1 pro is that you don't leave the page you were on-- comment box appears in a new window, you comment, close the window, and are exactly where you left off. This is really great if you're reading through a bunch of posts...you don't lose your spot! 
- I feel like it loads faster. You just load a tiny little box, not reload the whole page you were on.

Cons to Pop-Up:
-Not much interaction between commenters. Sometimes one of you will say 'like So and So said, I think _____' and So and So will never know that you agreed with her. Or if you have a question for why So and So thinks that, she'll never know you asked. 

Pros to Threaded Commenting:
-Basically the opposite of the Cons to Pop-Up. :) Interaction between all parties
-Can acknowledge/respond to people that don't have blogs/email addresses linked to their profiles

Cons to Threaded:
-MAJOR CON: Artificially inflates the comment count. It will count MY responses as 'comments' as well...so basically if 3 people comment and I respond to each comment in the thread, it looks like I got 6 comments. That's stupid. I didn't get 6 comments. And that would just really bother me.
-not sure about this one, but I think I would have to go TO my blog to respond in the thread? I could be wrong though (haven't tried yet)...maybe if I responded from my email, it would appear in the thread? Once yall start commenting today, I'm going to try both ways and see what happens. If I had to go back to the blog to comment, that would be a major con.

Okay. Sorry for all of the words today. Obviously I've been thinking about it a lot since changing it yesterday. What are your thoughts? Why do you have your comments threaded/pop-up? Which should I do? Will you race in my shetland sheepdog-themed 5K? Do you feel lied to if you see someone has 42 comments and then discover that 30 of them are actually their own? HELP ME PEOPLE.

PS. I have zero interest in installing Disqus or any other kind of third-party commenting system. Unless you have some life-shattering revelation about those things...I pretty much hate them and typically avoid leaving comments on blogs that use them because they annoy me so much. So there's that. (And if you have a blog that uses Disqus and I've commented on it...consider yourself very, very special.)

57 comments:

  1. I am commenting to see how I like the new thread way. I may change over myself. I face the same thing when people comment on my stuff and I am clueless on how to get back with them.

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  2. I must admit, I'm in the same boat as Amanda. Yesterday on my run I wore my husband's old "Rocky Balboa" t-shirt which I've cut the sleeves off of and some quite unflattering basketball shorts. I have cute neon clothes but I save them for Zumba. Since my runs are short and everyone on my street is old, I don't waste the good ones on them. I save them to "impress" the 100 lb. girls who frequent Zumba in this college town in which I reside. Which is laughable because I'm never really impressing anyone when I workout.

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    1. HA!! I also prioritize my workout clothes for the week according to who will be seeing me wear them. My neighborhood gets the losing end of THAT deal for sure!

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  3. I've always loved that you have a pop-up window (plus I was amazed that you knew how to even have one...I'm very un-technical). And I've heard the rumor that you can connect comments with email, but of course I never knew how. But I just spent like 10 minutes searching and I think I just connected my email with comments? I'm not really sure. Anyways, the 'thread' is cool, too. (I didn't even know that's what it was called. You learn something new everyday.)

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    1. Hmmm...I tried responding to you via email and you are still showing as a no-reply person...weird!! I wonder if you will be notified of this response (in-thread)?

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    2. See if this helps Melissa:
      http://amgreavu.blogspot.com/2013/02/logistics.html

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    3. Oohhhhhh...OK, let me work on it some more. The link ^ is helpful. :)

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  4. Don't mind being used as an example at all ;) And I will likely figure out the answer to this question once I hit "publish," but am I going to have to "subscribe" to comments or something like that to see your responses if you post one? There is another blog I started reading recently (uses wordpress though, I think), and I am pretty sure I have to subscribe to the post every time I comment if I want to get her responses, and it sends me an email notification ask me to confirm things, and it is just kind of a lengthy process... if the threaded business you are speaking of is not as complicated, I might have to give it a try!

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    1. Let's see if you get notified about this riveting response. :) What all did you have to do after you hit 'subscribe by email'? If you have to confirm a bunch of stuff, that's lame.

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  5. Just went and added my email address. I'm sorry for being a blogging slacker. Thank you for showing me the error of my ways.

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    1. Even though I previously replied to you by email, now I feel like I need to respond here, too, or people might think I was ignoring you?? Hmmm...that could be weird.

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    2. Ha! I feel so special to receive a double reply! It's like I've won a prize or something. Sahweet!

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  6. I read all of the above but am still kind of in the dark because I am not blog savy AT ALL. I will say it is nice to see your response to other people's comments where as before I couldn't see that. So whatever version that is I like it. I also like getting your reply by email (whatever version that is) because I do comment on many blogs and yours is the only one I know for sure I got a reply from because I get it in email. Not sure if that helps at all. I would totally run in your sheep-dog 5k but if it was like a 1k I might actually make it to the finish :)

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    1. Girl you are voting for both teams...only I am allowed to do that!!! ;) Just kidding. I am curious whether you get an email notification of this comment that I am currently writing. Will you let me know either way? Also that's a good call to make it a 1k. I will make golf carts available for the other 4ks because seriously, who wants to run that far.

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    2. I did not get an email notification....I did the "go back through the blog and look thing" to make sure you didn't ignore poor little ol me..haha

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    3. BOO!!! Anyone else? Anyone getting email notifications of comments I post here?

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  7. I also dislike Disqus and rarely comment on blogs that use it. I also agree that I really don't go back to blogs to see if the author has responded (I have responded to your comments on my blog can't believe that you didn't go back and read them :)). It also seems more personal to get an e-mail from you on the topic. However, I like that everyone can see that you have commented. Not like you just ignore your followers. There are pros and cons to both. Not sure what's best but you must be more technical than I because don't know how to change it so it's just the way that it was setup on my blog.

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    1. WHAT? Now I have to go reread the last year's worth of comments on your blog to see all the times you've responded to me. See you later, productivity!! ;) And as for being technical...it's super easy to change between the 2 ways on Blogger, but no clue about WP.

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  8. Interesting post, well written and expressed! There are so many different comment outlets now that it's like you're filling in a form or something! No one wants that!

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  9. You are in luck: my mother-in-law is letting me use her treadmill after work so I don't have to run in 1000% humidity...which means the shetland sheepdog shirt will be pulled out of the dryer and put to good use once again. A picture may or may not be appearing in your inbox later (though I may blackbar my face so as not to die of total embarrassment). Or maybe I will write a blog detailing my fine selection for workout attire. You never know--7th grade tshirts featuring favorite pets might be the next big thing!

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    1. PICTURES!!!!! Either in my inbox or on your blog, either way. Don't just leave us hanging. We need to see the sheepdog!!! I am mentally browsing through my 7th grade t-shirt wardrobe as we speak...so many awesome choices there, tough to decide which one to wear first when they come back in style!!

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    2. Do 7th grade band shirts fall into this category?? If so I'm in on this!

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    3. 7th grade band shirts get double points.

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    4. I have at least 6 7th grade choir shirts. It was the year they tried having us wear matching shirts every day of tour. Fortunately they never did it again. Unfortunately I still wear some of them. But not to work out, because I haven't done that in like a year. But do those get extra points too? I think we're starting to line up for your interventions, because maybe cute neon clothes would inspire me to actually work out.

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    5. Yes, choir shirts also qualify for double points, but only if you can remember some of the songs you sang, too. And you have to stand at the 3k mile marker (kilometer marker?) and sing them while we run.

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    6. Ab. So. Lutely. And I definitely remember the songs. I'll be like the lady dressed in some kind of peppermint patty-esque get-up we saw on a corner the other day waving a striped umbrella. Couldn't decide if she was supposed to be advertising something (with no sign) or just enjoyed spending her weekends that way.

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  10. Good grief, what a predicament! I am such a terrible decision-maker; I hate having options! You give a good argument for both, though, which makes casting my vote even more difficult. So I think I'll exercise my right as an American citizen and (more importantly) fellow blogger to NOT have an opinion on this. :-)

    I will say that I enjoy our email exchanges, it's been fun getting to know you, but I also like the idea of being able to respond to some of your friends' comments and having the opportunity to interact with them through you, too (without feeling like a total creeper by stalking their blogs and never commenting...oops!).

    Anyway, that's just my two cents. If you keep the thread, you should totally host some sort of blog block party, where your blog friends can all introduce themselves, how they know you, etc., etc. That could be fun! Bring Your Own Blog!

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    1. BLOG BLOCK PARTY?!?! That is the best idea ever!!! Anything to help people get over the feeling that they are blog creepers!! ;)

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  11. I like the mystery that pop-up allows, personally, and I do get annoyed about the inflated number of comments when it counts your own!

    However, I really like threaded comments on sites of recipes, for example, because you can see answers that the author provides to questions, ie: can I use fat free sour cream in this recipe? That kind of response is vital information.

    The end.

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  12. While I love the idea of commenting and responding to more of my readers than just those with email set up... I'm still in pop-up camp for all of the reasons you provided. Email is way more personal too. The really good friendships that I've formed here are almost solely with people who have email set up... I'm just not going to check back on blogs throughout the day AND I'm not going to feel as open responding (like I might know their name or personal details not shared on the blog) on the blog. That's my argument... and therefore I still tell people to figure out the email thing: it's not rocket science!

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    1. TRUE. Good points there, too!! HOW WILL I EVER DECIDE!!

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    2. No email notification of your response... : ( X 100,000

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    3. Are we fixed? Testing 1, 2, 3

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  13. I like the thread commenting because I enjoy reading what the Blog author has to say to other commenters. And sometimes I like go back and check a blog at the end of the day, especially if I posted a question or something (I guess I do not read enough blogs or I have way TOO much time on my hands).

    On a separate note I think I fall into the creepy blog commenter with no email attached and I really have no idea how to fix that.

    Thanks for starting the thought convo on blog commenting!

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    1. Yes, you are a no-replyer. :) This girl wrote an easy tutorial (with screen shots!) about how to fix that situation: http://storyofmylifetheblog.blogspot.com/2013/05/a-rant-about-blogger-comments-are-you.html

      I agree w/ liking to go back to blogs sometimes and see what the author replied to other people...gah!! Such a debate! Good points on all sides!

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    2. OK, that ^ link is the best one yet!! I think I'm no longer no-reply? We'll see. But I didn't get an email saying you had responded to my comment, so I'm not sure what's up with that yet.

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  14. I am torn too. First, I had 2 thoughts to share. One was about the debate and the other was a reply to another comment. So I'm going through the whole process twice (on my phone, no less), which is kind of annoying. But I like the interaction and ability to see some of your other responses. And that you can still reply to some by email if you want. But if there are no emails sent to notify of follow-up comments, I think that would be a deal-breaker for me.

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    1. Yeah. Apparently a lot of people aren't getting the notification of follow-up comments...did you hit 'subscribe' on this one, perchance? I need to know if that helps. I bet what would help the most would be if I would remove the stupid 'prove you aren't a robot' thing, huh? Maybe the spambots are on summer break and I won't die of spam if I take it off this time...

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    2. I didn't hit subscribe, but I will this time to test it. No proving my non-robotness would be nice, but I totally get that it's not worth the spam.

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    3. OK if you're subscribed now, see if you find out that you're getting this riveting new comment...

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  16. Matters not to me how you and I converse via witty banter! I thoroughly enjoy reading your blog, commenting and then receiving emails from you. It's almost like opening my inbox and finding a message from a celebrity! ;-)
    Hey...can you get the cool verification where you drag the picture instead of typing the silly words? That drives me crazy!

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    1. Dude I WISH I knew how to get different/better word verifications!! Blogger doesn't give you any choices (other than turning it off or on)...so sad, cause some of them are pretty cute...or at least way less obnoxious!

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    2. Eh...no worries! Worth it to send you a love message!!!

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  17. I'm all about following up with email. :)

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  18. I have disqus, and you have/do comment on my blog - i am special! :) :) Haha. BUT i have been having issues commenting on other people's blogs with disqus and have considered un-installing it. Here's the thing: It is awesome to HAVE disqus but not awesome to USE disqus. Make sense? Like, when i comment on someone else's blog with disqus, i get all kinds of trouble. But i like using it from my end. If that made sense!

    I have always preferred the threaded commenting, instead of the pop-up, i'm not sure why. But i didn't realize some of the things you said about it here - and it sounds like those things are the things i LIKE about disqus. So we may have a win-win here, for me. :)

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  19. I use Disqus and you comment on my blog sometimes, so all this post did was make me feel unbelievably special.

    I think I have wayyyy too much time on my hands because I often go back and check to see if people respond to my comments. I wish there was a better way. I do love getting emails from you, but it's also nice to see what was said to previous commenters. Quite the predicament.

    So you've really made me question myself and my use of Disqus. It's one of those things Eric told me I HAD to have, and I never really questioned it. But now I'm getting a complex that I'm annoying people. What to do?!

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    1. You should feel special. You should ask Eric why he thinks you HAVE to have it! I really don't know that much about it, except that it's annoying on the comment-leaver's end. :)

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  20. Oh noooo! I just went and got rid of my disqus and now all of my comments are GONE! SOB! I will get over it though.

    Oh, and i am totally with you on the no-reply blogger thing, and i NEVER go back and look to see if someone replied to my comments... that would take forever! I would never even remember to do it! ;)

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    1. Ahhhh!! I have heard that about Disqus, too-- losing your comments if you ever uninstall it. That is super sad!! I hope you don't hold me responsible!! ;) (On the flip side, maybe now you'll get like 5x more comments because people won't have to battle Disqus? So maybe it'll work out.)

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    2. Haha - it's okay... i will not hold you responsible. If i ever re-install disqus, my comments (plus any left while NOT with disquis) will be there.

      I uninstalled it b/c i thought it may annoy others like you, and maybe i would get more comments that way. So far, i have NOT gotten more comments at all - but i HAVE gotten 2 spammy comments...something that was never an issue with disqus (which i remember now is why i went to it in the first place). But then i realized i could change my settings to allow only google users or something to keep the spammy comments from happening? B/c those are the worst!

      Why you don't like leaving comments with disqus? I have to ask. B/c there are different settings for it and one might make it less annoying?!

      Also, i forgot to subscribe here and it is a MIRACLE i came back to see you had responded! Blerg. What a topic! :) Curious to see your voting results!

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    3. Oh, word verification! That's how you avoid spam. I no like word verification. It is to me as disqus must be to you! :)

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  21. I, too, think I'm going to stick with the pop-up... But, I hope this means you'll still respond via e-mail, too!! :)

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  22. Ever since I (blog stalker that I am!) read all your posts last summer, I have been responding to people's comments on my blog through e-mail. And I enabled my address so bloggers can respond to me that way too. If someone hasn't enabled their e-mail address I do respond to them through my blog. That way my comment numbers aren't too inflated. And since I have the "reply" thing enabled, other commenters can respond to each other. I figure it's up to the original commenter to go back and see if I responded.

    I find it annoying when you "subscribe to comments" and you get all the nine million comments other people leave which don't pertain to your comment at all.

    And that is my late contribution to the debate.

    ps. I am not a dog person (I hope we can still be friends) so I wouldn't race in a Shetland Sheepdog 5km but I do workout in a t-shirt I bought in Germany in Grade 11. And I am older than you so that makes my shirt pretty old... Maybe you could just change it to "An Old Shirt Relay"?!?!?

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  23. gosh . . . admission: "I technally challenged".

    Only a step ahead of your grandparents . . .I don't even know how to press the "publish" & leave my e-mail . . .UGH.

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  24. I've just decided (like yesterday) to start responding to comments via email rather than on my blog. You're so right...people don't return to see if you followed up. So anyways...timely post for me at least.

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  25. I also hate how the threaded commenting counts your own comments towards your overall total. So when I respond to a comment on my blog via thread my response doesn't automatically get emailed to them? Ugh. I was under the impression that it did. But then again I am technically challenged like no other so this is no surprise. :)

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I love comments almost as much as I love Mexican food. Seriously.